Future Of The Fitness Industry – Brendo McCormack
With all of the different gyms in the world and with all the different coaches, there must be that one thing that sets each apart. On this episode of The New Helix Experience podcast, Tim Frey is joined by Brendo Mccormack as they talk about the Future Of The Fitness Industry.
- Who is Brendo Mccormack?
- How Brendo got into fitness and how he knew how passionate he is about it?
- Perth becoming the fittest city in the world.
- Brendo’s involvement in the gyms in Australia.
- Fitness industry in the next 5 years.
Connect with Tim on Twitter and Instagram
Speaker1: [00:00:00] Brendo McCormack. Thanks for joining us, Brendo.
Speaker2: [00:00:03] Pleasure, Tim. Thanks for having me on.
Speaker1: [00:00:05] Thanks for making the time. I appreciate it. I’ve been wanting to do a podcast with you for probably for probably five years, so this is a long time coming.
Speaker2: [00:00:13] That’s awesome, dude. Yeah, and same thing. We got to reciprocate it when when Perfect Friend podcast starts doing its thing back next year. So 2023, we’ll make sure that we do a pod swap.
Speaker1: [00:00:23] Yeah, that’d be cool. I remember asking you to be on your podcast like three years ago and you been me. You reject me and I will not give up. Did I? Actually, yeah. Yeah. You fought me off and I was like.
Speaker2: [00:00:34] I ain’t going to get him. No, I’ll do it. That sounds so strange because I would have been keen for sure, I reckon. Like without going into the weeds early with this thing, there must have been something that happened at that time, like COVID kicked off. Yet if I kicked off, something happened that just detracted away from it. But we’re definitely going to make it happen.
Speaker1: [00:00:52] Yeah, I appreciate that. So if someone hasn’t seen your bald head before and they don’t know who you are, how would you introduce yourself? Like, what do you do? Who are you?
Speaker2: [00:01:02] What do I do? Okay, cool. So, yeah, it’s funny. There’s this whole new generation of people come in and I’m not as front of camera as I once was. Yeah, people forget you really quickly. So a lot of the stuff I do is behind the scenes now, but most people know me as Brendo. So I think of it like Madonna. Whereas if you say Brendo within the industry and just that, then it’s people are going to know who you are. I strategically did that because I couldn’t get the name Brendo McCormack dot com but I could get Brendo Sorry. Brandon Yeah, but I couldn’t get Brendo so I was like, That’s it. I’m Brendo and everyone just calls me Brendo. So I started in the industry 20 years ago. Next year, go into that a little bit further. I’ve done a whole bunch of stuff within the industry. I first wanted to just sell protein. That was my goal in life to sell protein. I thought that people who worked at supplement stores were they’re like the best people in the world. So I did that. I’ve spent time as a rep. I got into media, which is perfect fan. So most I guess that’s where people really started to know me as I had a network before that. But that really sort of got me out there into the public eye a lot more. And then from there I’ve created multiple businesses. So fit ofyour dating app for fitness for fitness enthusiasts, which I sold my shares in. And if you’re a fitness business in Perth at some stage, I’ve had an impact in your business.
Speaker1: [00:02:28] Yeah, you’ve been marketing to them on Facebook ads or somehow.
Speaker2: [00:02:31] Yeah, either that or there’s like there’s, there’s like one degree of separation with a business that I’ve had an impact with. So something that I’ve done in the industry has impacted that specific business if it’s in Perth.
Speaker1: [00:02:46] Yeah, I was speaking to Steph before the podcast and we were obviously reviewing the questions that we had for it. And one of the things we like most respect is how much hassle you’ve got and how many things you’ve done and how successful you’ve been in a lot of things. So congrats on that. Yeah, it takes a fair person to, to do that. So I know that you’ve basically done everything in the fitness industry, like training wise, I think you’re a vegan, You did bodybuilding, you know, you’re an Olympic weightlifter. Like how did it start in the fitness industry? Like, what was the first steps? Like, where were you training? How that all work?
Speaker2: [00:03:20] Yeah, for sure. So I grew up playing baseball and I grew up playing guitar. So there was two things. And I was equally, I guess equally at the same level in each one. So I played state level baseball, which is actually how I ended up in Perth because I grew up in Canberra, came here for the Nationals one year and if you come from Canberra and then you see Perth and you’ve got these amazing beaches, this great weather, the city like I was just blown away by and I was like, okay, I’m going to live there one day. So that’s how I actually ended up in Perth. But yeah, guitar and baseball. So when I was 16 I was really skinny. I was 55 kilos and vegetarian actually, and I had this sort of mentor. It was sort of like a bigger brother back then. And he was this jacked dude who was my supervisor at Woolies, but he sort of just took me under his wing in life and I really looked up to him and one time he was like, Hey man, do you want to come to the gym with me? And of course, you know, I just wanted to be this dude. So I was like, Yeah, I went to the gym and I specifically remember the first exercise I did was bench press, which is pretty common. And I had two and a half kilos aside and I’m struggling to like bench out this two and a half kilos or this whatever that would be 25 kilos.
Speaker2: [00:04:39] But it was literally like that one first time that I was just hooked and I was like, Oh, this is me. Like, this is my jam. And I sold all my guitar stuff within like a month. I was just like, Okay, I’m going to burn that and I’m just going to I’m a gym dude now. And I had to go through this weed decision because I was vegetarian. Marion. And there wasn’t all the vacant stuff now, like there there wasn’t all the vegan stuff and options like there is now. And it was just, hey, if you don’t eat meat, you’re not going to get protein, you’re not going to grow muscle. It’s all I was told. So I was like, have this dilemma and like, that’s it, I’m getting yoked. And so I stopped being vegetarian when I was 16. So I was three years have been veggie and that sort of what started my journey in getting into fitness. It was just because I wanted to, you know, I wanted to be like that guy. And I really looked up to him and which is awesome because he was from Canberra too. He doesn’t live there now, but we’re both going back for Christmas this year. So. So we spoke the other day on the phone and yeah, we’re going to reconnect after all these years, which is awesome.
Speaker1: [00:05:47] Epic. Yeah, mine was pretty similar. I was working in a supplement shore store in Search Clarkson and this little shop in the corner and this guy Nick was like, Do you want to be my training partner? And I said, Fuck it. Like, why not? And he was just bodybuilding guy. So essentially we were training six days a week, like hard as fuck. I think that was probably the hardest I ever trained was in that first period of training this do push me. I think I gained like ten kilos in 18 months. Like that first like gain phase got absolutely massive. Well, for me, massive wasn’t like a twig anymore. So I went from like 65, probably 75 kilos, thought I was absolutely huge. And then the rest is history. But it’s funny how like you start supplements is like the ultimate job for you when you first get into the fitness industry. Like, I’m going to get cheap protein.
Speaker2: [00:06:30] I ask you something. Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Just on that. Sorry to cut you off because it’s like this is how backwards. How did you work at a supplement store before you started training so.
Speaker1: [00:06:40] Well, I was training, but I had no idea what I was doing, like everyone in the fitness industry because I was like 18 training. But like, it was kind of just everything was backwards. I was a patriot, so no idea what I was doing. Like one of those struggling personal trainers, you know, paying 300 bucks a week and just getting nowhere with anything.
Speaker2: [00:06:56] It’s the most people know the context of this. You and I knew each other back then.
Speaker1: [00:07:00] Yeah. Yeah, it was probably a while ago. It’s 13 years ago. Something like that. Anyway, it was crazy. And then I’ve seen the rise of Perth Fit Fam, which was pretty interesting to me back in the day. And I know Perth Fam has taken many evolutions and I think the latest project is becoming the fittest city in the world, which I saw and I loved. Can you explain like what the passion is to becoming the well, you helping us become the fittest city in the world and what it’s all about.
Speaker2: [00:07:32] Yeah. Let’s spend a bit of time delving into this one and I’ll try and take people through a bit of a story with that. So when Perth Fit kicked off, initially I had this big network of people. I’ve been a rep for years and I got to see so much cool stuff within the fitness industry and whether that was from a bodybuilding, a CrossFit, a powerlifting, all the different gyms like 40 fives and even like Your Jungle Bodies, which was this Perth based dance community. And I was like, Man, unless you’re from these spaces, you probably think, Oh yeah, there’s like a couple of hundred people that probably do this. But whenever you jump into the niche, there’s thousands of people, there’s personalities, politics, there’s apparel, there’s lingo, It’s like, it’s like there’s so much, there’s so much culture within all of these niches. And I was like, Man, I just want to showcase all the cool stuff that’s in the scene. And that’s sort of how it started. And it was really like the way that we did content and interviews and being episodic and then doing the podcasts. And it just created this way of connecting the Perth fitness, which is what I always said, and gave the vibe in Perth that, you know, it was a bigger community who was more so connected. Whereas if you go anywhere else and the feedback I get from people who come over here, it’s like, Oh man, it just seems like the industry is so much more connected than what we have over here, where everyone sort of just in their little holes.
Speaker2: [00:08:54] Part of that, I think, has to do with the size of Perth because I always say it’s big enough to make an impact, but not so big that you get lost in the crowd. Whereas in Sydney, you know, there’s a lot more going on. It would be much harder to break through. But at the same time, I think it was just the innovation of what we did and the attention that it got and how fast it grew back then. I also think that Perth fan led the way in that we’re connecting the community together. So from a cultural impact, I think like that was really revolutionary from now. Now obviously there were things that happened within the midst of that. I found a fit of Fire, which was the dating app that took a lot of my focus, you know, raise funding and, you know, had investors and whatnot. And I was like, okay, I really have a passion for Perth and the fitness industry and, you know, the things that I’d done and the opportunities I had. But at the same time it was like, okay, now this is a project that I need to put all my efforts into.
Speaker2: [00:09:53] So Perfect Fan went on ice for a couple of years and then I ventured off into that and now I like sort of circle back to making Perth the fittest city in the world and I guess the evolution in this time and we spoke off camera about how you change over the years in the industry. So we both started off as bros, like, Hey, we’re skinny dudes, we just want to get big and, you know, drink protein. And then we both sort of ventured into more of a functional sort of training and, you know, whether you’re doing CrossFit sort of style or you’re doing Olympic weightlifting, there’s different sort of things that you venture out there where it goes from being less about aesthetics and then more about athletics. And then now I’m sort of at an age where I I’m not so concerned about that, but it’s more so long in jeopardy and hey, what is this fitness endeavor actually do for me health wise, longevity wise? Obviously, I want to feel good and I want to live a long, healthy life. So that’s my personal journey. And I think most people go through a similar sort of journey as they go through the years from making the fittest city in the world and the passion from that. Obviously, I love Perth as a city. It’s my favourite city and we’re lucky that we get to live here and I love the fitness industry and have a wealth of experience through that.
Speaker2: [00:11:16] The way I got to this point was I’ve grown up in the fitness industry and I’m surrounded by gym people or people like you. My wife, we met from the industry, all my close friends. I’m in a gym all the time, so my lens of the world was that, hey, it’s not like early 2000s where there was no CrossFit, there was no 24 seven gyms. There was only, you know, some big box gyms around and no one knew about protein or nutrition. And back then, if you trained and took protein, you were definitely the fittest person within the community in saying that Canberra wasn’t a big place, but me and my mates, we definitely stood out in Canberra back then. So yeah, I’m like, okay, it’s not like the early 2000s. Everyone knows about fitness, everyone has a gym membership. There’s gyms on every single corner. But what I. Actually looked into the data which I came across, and I’ve got some numbers and stuff now. Is it still such a small percentage of the population that do physical activity? So less than 18% of the population actually go to a gym. And then the question of that is because you and I sort of know daters of gyms, if you’re a community based gym, you probably have about a 90 to 90.
Speaker2: [00:12:30] I want to say community. I would say boutique or smaller group fitness or a gym. You probably have about a 90 to 95 active member rate. If you’re a bigger box gym, you probably have about 20 to 30%. So of that number, how many of those actually equate to that 18%? And then on the flip side, if you want to like delve even deeper, what are you equate to an active member? Is that they’re coming three times a week or is that on your database that they’re come in once a month and so they’re they’re considered less likely to cancel that membership, which is that sort of sleeper model. So I’m like, Man, this is crazy. I can’t believe that so many people don’t do physical activity, don’t take care of their health and fitness, because I’ve never met someone who made a life change, got fitter, felt better about themselves, look better, going to live a longer life, and then went, Fuck, I really regret that. Like, I’ve never seen that. It’s impossible. I don’t. I don’t know if anyone can give me an example of of anyone doing that. And so the passion, I guess my passion for the industry is changed where I’m like, Hey, as an industry we do something amazing. And I don’t think that we get credit for it. The government sees us still as recreation.
Speaker2: [00:13:45] They don’t see us as health. And partly it is recreation, but partly it’s also health. They’re not exclusive. They still see us as people taking photos in mirrors, wearing stringer tees, trying to look good for a festival, and to the point that if you go to LinkedIn and you go to put in your industry, or if you do signing up on a form and select industry where other we’re not like a an industry that people look at serious enough. Yeah, that’s right. We’re sort of like that other industry now. The impact that we have is every single person who is inactive, physically inactive cost the government on average two and a half thousand per year. Now that’s like over 80% of the population. That equates to $1.5 billion in health care costs per year, which are preventable by people just doing physical activity. And for me, that’s crazy. So I’ll come back specifically to Perth. So even knowing this and not really getting support or recognition from the government, even to the point where in COVID we weren’t recognised as an essential service that will flip around. Now in Queensland it’s already flipped around, but that’s definitely going to change over time. But if we can showcase the return of investment for the government to invest in our industry, not only does it get people fit, get people more active, that closes that gap, but it helps businesses as well.
Speaker2: [00:15:14] If we’re getting that support and whether that’s from cash, whether we’re talking subsidies here, whether we’re just talking about awareness, whether we’re talking about partnerships, there’s mutual benefit and it will save the government what was projected. I think it was not Murdoch Uni, it wasn’t here. It was a university actually over East because it’s a report which I’ve actually got from AWS Active who I’ve been doing a bit of collaboration with. The Return on Investment would be about 3.1 times for the government to do it. The issue with it is your election cycles running for years to see a return on this. It’s going to be our generation, so it’s going to be impacting our generation. Get active because it’s about a 20 year turnaround until okay, how many of people of people who were born in the 1980s, let’s say, I think you might be on the cusp, you might be in 1991, 91, 91. Okay. So but within that sort of range, how many of those people can we impact, which is going to save us on those health care costs within the future? And then who’s going to have the guts to say, hey, I am only going to be in a four year swing, so I’m going to put in Band-Aids as opposed to actually creating a long term preventable solution? These are the challenges that we’re going to face.
Speaker2: [00:16:36] So when I look at that stuff, and again, my progression in the industry is different. Some people are concerned about, you know, looking good. I’m sort of looking at a very high level view of the industry and how can we make that impact. So I think part of the question was, you know, that’s that obviously should showcase my passion for that. Yeah, I could talk about this on a national level. My cities, Perth and that’s what I’m passionate about is we can make an impact in Perth and I believe that we have a platform and. Resources and knowledge to be able to do that. So from us as an actual business, and I guess this is the lessons that I learned through going through a startup process, so going through the build. So if you look at someone from a funnel process or if you look at a customer journey from a funnel process, you essentially have like awareness. It’s called pirate metrics. If someone wants to look it up and it’s a R, so pirate like R, which is pretty lame, but it’s essentially you start off with awareness, so somebody is either aware or they’re just completely unaware. And one of the biggest problems that we face is that the broader population just literally aren’t aware of what we do. The fitness industry, they think it’s only for jacked up people who have an ego that’s an awareness problem to overcome.
Speaker2: [00:17:48] So establishing that is key. Then you’ve got acquisition which would essentially be getting the lead. Then you got activation, which would be those people, let’s say, for instance, activating their trial. Then you got revenue, which is that person becoming a paying member and you got referral, which is how many of those how many people does that person tell their friends? Word of mouth still massive. And then retention, which is a big issue with some gyms or some or businesses, but there’s always a churn rate built within that business. So if I look at perfect Fam and what, what success or like the outcome that we want to achieve of it, first of all, we want to really work on that top level. Part of it essentially the a components of the funnel for the broader population. So we’re a media business, we are known for our content outreach is outreach, especially when we partner with people is amazing. It helps out. So how can we tell a story over a period of time to showcase not only what’s happening in the industry, but to inspire people to get involved with something that they love? Because I think that there’s something for everyone. It doesn’t need to be slinging barbells or dumbbells. There’s something of physical activity. I think that everyone can go, Hey, that’s for me.
Speaker2: [00:19:11] And our job is to be able to showcase that and inspire people to be able to do that from a platform standpoint, because you’ve got to have a Northern star like, you’ve got to have that, Hey, what’s that key metric that is most important for us? And ours also works through a funnel process, so we are perfect. Com that value, which is where our content is held on and our database of gyms and whatnot. So for me, obviously there’s traffic which isn’t really a bit of a vanity metric, but it does show a level of success that people are coming through. But then you’ve got listing views. So how many people are actually going from coming to the website to then exploring a business and what’s that percentage? So what’s the intent of people actually coming in? But the final one is how many people make an enquiry within a business. So we’re essentially building out the awareness, getting people interested, somehow targeting them, whether it’s through organic, whether it’s through paid, whether it’s through part of our web content and it’s an interest piece and somebody’s search for it and they sort of funnel through that journey. But how many of those people become an inquiry? So the fittest countries in the world, if you want to like edgy and I’m sort of like going through if you need to edge in, let me know.
Speaker1: [00:20:27] I’ve got a few questions. I’ll just jump in in a minute.
Speaker2: [00:20:29] Okay. The two fittest countries in the world at the moment, from what I’ve seen, is Sweden and Norway and their percentages of people that train at a fitness facility. So gym studio, something along the lines of that, it’s still only 22. It’s not that big of a gap. Australia, it’s actually less than 18 where fit fitter so it’s probably around about 17 miles. So it was like that 5% gap. So for us to be able to become, let’s say, the fittest city in the world and reach that 22, it works out to be about 100,000 people who don’t currently train, who then go, Hey man, I saw that thing. And that inspired me. And I want to take up health and fitness. So it’s actually there’s actually a concrete number to get that level of success. Yeah, I’ll let you jump in here. There’s probably one more thing that that to touch on with context, which is called the gap agreement which the government signed. And just to give, I assume like people who listen to this are probably industry people as well as fitness enthusiasts. And I don’t think anyone I’ve met has ever heard of the gap or agreement.
Speaker1: [00:21:39] No, I definitely haven’t. So I wanted to ask you, which I’ll answer first. What do you think the 82% are doing or not doing? And the reasons why they are not training would be pretty interested to know. So I personally think a lot of it is like a fear. Like I think there’s a fear of like, Hey, I’ve got these images in my head of a personal trainer whipping me abs like a trainer screaming at me saying, like. Fucking get it. Like more reps, like burpees. It’s going to be pain, it’s going to be punishment. It’s going to be hard. I feel like a lot of people have that image of like physical fitness wherever that’s come from in the mass media. I think another part of it is just a general lack of education and that kind of stems from the top. There is a huge lack of education in in health of how important physical activity and nutrition is. And I think like those two things are keeping a lot of people away from even engaging. Most people don’t even think about like, I need fitness until there’s a fucking big problem with their health. And when they have a big problem with their health, maybe they start researching and being like, Maybe I need to go for more walks, maybe I need to get a personal trainer, maybe I need to get a meal plan, maybe I need to start eating better. But until they have that big health scare, I don’t think it becomes like super prevalent or relevant for them. And yeah, maybe you can give me your opinion on why the 82% aren’t doing anything.
Speaker2: [00:22:58] Yeah, I think it stems from that top. A final like I mentioned, I reckon that people are caught in the hamster wheel of life and if you’re not a fitness person then you’re unaware and what you said is true. So it is actually like awareness, education, understanding. Definitely intimidation. How many times have we heard, Oh, I want to get fitter before I go to the gym? Yeah, it’s crazy, right? Crazy like nuts. I thought that I was like, Oh, I did that gym, did the band for me. And I’m like, I didn’t want to go to a big gym and I wanted to train it. A little private country club, which is up the road from me back then because I wanted to bulk up before I walked into the gym. And that’s like a young, a young dude. So many people about that same thing of intimidation. I think that there’s two prongs with what you said about the mass media and the fitness and that with him. So I’ll delve back into like the algorithm a little bit. So if we’re publishing content, right, we’re doing fitness content and we try to be wary because you can get caught into the elite side of it really quick when we push out content because we know that there’s certain things that are going to get more interaction and more reach.
Speaker2: [00:24:06] The issue is if you do that and it wins on, let’s say, Instagram, it’s going to hit fitness people. So it’s like I tell everyone, Hey, man, if you think you’re going to do that booty stuff and whatnot, whatever that is, and you think that you’re going to inspire the masses, you’re literally getting played by the algorithm, and that’s going to get pushed through to people that already have an interest. So misconception, but also awareness. If we look at Biggest Loser, I want to know what the impact that having a mainstream show, which was fitness based, whether it was right or not, is another question. But getting pushed through a mass channel to the general population because I think that there’s different partnerships that need to happen which don’t circulate around industry and algorithm, and there’s different channels that it needs to come through for it to actually make an impact. So you might be you were born in Germany.
Speaker1: [00:24:59] We know know Australia. My family is just German, both parents.
Speaker2: [00:25:03] Okay, I’m not sure you might be at the Gap where you might be a little bit too young or I’m not sure if it was around, but do you ever remember the Life be in It campaign that used to be on? Okay, so back when I.
Speaker1: [00:25:16] Was young, like you.
Speaker2: [00:25:18] Yeah.
Speaker1: [00:25:18] So you’re showing.
Speaker2: [00:25:20] You’re right. Because. Yeah, yeah, for sure. Which it happens a lot more now for sure. Even the Greys are popping up. So when I was young, there was this thing called the Life like be in it. And it was always these ads that got played, these cartoony ads. But it was basically it was basically inspiring, you know, the broader population that was all through mainstream to be physically active. And there’s actually a key point within the percentage of people who are physically active which correlate with that campaign. And that’s the highest bump that we’ve ever seen in a percentage. And the crazy thing is it’s never been done ever since then. So this is where communication comes in and you’ve got to work out, okay, well, can we be self sufficient with this or do you need government support to be able to do this? Which is tricky, but obviously that makes the process a bit easier. If you can get through the red tape to make that happen. So I’ll come back to the Gap agreement because it’s probably a good time, otherwise we’ll segment out of it. So the gap year agreement, it’s a worldwide initiative by who and I know even that is a trigger subject in 2022, but it was signed by multiple countries in 2018. And the purpose of it is they want to get more people, more active people for a healthier world by 2030. And I believe that the jump is 10%. So it’s not huge. It’s sort of like, you know, I said going from like 17% to that 22%, it’s somewhat it might be 15% the jump, but it’s somewhat within the vicinity of there to get 15% of people more active by 20.
Speaker2: [00:27:06] 30, and there’s four key steps without delving into it too much, but I’ll jump through them now. So objective one is create active societies. So for policy action, I propose to aim, aim to create positive social norms and attitudes and a paradigm shift in society by enhancing the knowledge and undertaking of and appreciation for the multiple benefits of regular physical exercise according to all abilities and ages. Literally, what we just spoke about right, is education and getting people more aware and understanding of physical activity. So that’s point one. Point number two, create active environments, a policy action that addresses the need to create supportive spaces and places that promote the safeguard and rights of all people, of all ages and abilities to have equitable access to safe places and spaces in their cities, which where they can engage in physical activity. So that’s more from a council planning standpoint. We might have people within our industry that advise on that, but that’s more so how they’re doing, developments with safe places, getting people to be able to commute and to be fit or outdoors and that sort of stuff, which is also another topic is commute and the impact of COVID and working from home and 20% drop in physically active people through that period. Point number three is create active people. So six policy action, which outlines multiple settings in which an increase in programs and opportunities can help people of all ages and abilities engage in regular physical activities as individuals, families and communities.
Speaker2: [00:28:43] So creating more different programs for everyone. I don’t know where that’s going to come from because the government’s not going to do that. That’s going to come from an internal industry and like an innovation, and we can definitely delve into that if we don’t have a time cap of where those opportunities are and create active systems wide policy action to outline the investments needed to increase the systems necessary to implement effective and coordinated international, national and subnational action, to increase physical activity and reduce sedentary behavior. These action accepts governments, leadership, multisectoral partnerships, workforce capabilities, which is massive advocacy information systems and financing mechanisms across all relevant sectors. So what I take out of that is and why people don’t exercise and I’ve got a kid now, so I sort of get a little bit more. You get caught into that hamster wheel of life and it’s like and obviously everyone can have an excuse and and the easy thing to say is, oh, well, they’re just making an excuse. But if you look at the time, the commute to work on all of that, how do we increase corporate engagement? Like how do you get people to do a minimum level of activity whilst they’re at work as well? Like what opportunities are that? So I think that you’ve got those combinations. So that’s all awesome, right? And having that plan and signing up to that plan is all awesome. The issue with this is. Zero efforts been put towards it?
Speaker1: [00:30:02] Well, I think the only one I was going to say is number two. I think councils definitely are making spaces to engage in physical activity. That’s the only one that you went through there out of the four, which I thought they’re actually doing. Other than that, maybe, maybe we’re in an echo chamber and we don’t see it, but I can’t see fuck all being done. All the other.
Speaker2: [00:30:21] Three. Yeah, I can tell you nothing’s been done because I was at the Active Leaders Summit. I was in Sydney maybe two months ago now, maybe a little bit less. And this is something that’s been brought up and I’ve had this personal dialogue with them as well, and they’ve outright told me, like, nothing’s been like nothing’s been done. We’ve signed up for this thing. It’s all good. Let’s get behind it. They’re the governing body. They’re doing good work now. Whereas before, when it was Fitness Australia, I would say it was completely irrelevant. I think anyone in the industry could agree with that. But now I’m actually seeing what they’re doing behind the scenes and I’m like, okay, there’s value to this, but how do we actually push this forward? Because you’re in negotiation like, you know, you’re in negotiation trying to get this support, Hey, we’re here to support you. What can we do to be able to facilitate this stuff to happen And four year election cycle, it’s like, okay, new government, you’ve got to start this process again. You’ve got to start this process again.
Speaker1: [00:31:14] Well, the Nordic countries have a different governance system, don’t they? I think Sweden, Norway, they have like shared prime minister roles and it’s like a lot longer term. So maybe they don’t have this much political pressure to execute something in four years than we were. So maybe they’re pushing it like the physical fitness initiatives, like further faster compared to us.
Speaker2: [00:31:34] Yeah, I’d like to know. It’s funny because you have a UK active who’s the governing body over there and they dialled in and we spoke, they spoke about a National Fitness Day, so like UK Fitness Day. And one of the questions was, Oh, how did you get the government to do that? And they said, Well, we did and we just did it ourselves. Like it became this whole PR campaign, this activation, getting people to be active for this day. It’s building that awareness, but they’re like, No, no, no, we self funded it like and if you can do that and for us is perfect fam. So if this brings like if this kind of also wraps up okay what success like what’s the objective if we can create these if we can create like PR campaigns to reach the broader public, to have partnerships throughout WA and there’s a bit of infrastructure to make this happen, but we’re not relying on getting the green light from the government and the process that’s involving that, That success for me is okay not just using our channel but maybe using networks and maybe using and it’s not a solo project. It’s going to take people, not just me, it’s going to take, you know, the industry leaders like you. And there’s probably hundreds of them, possibly hundreds of them who have that experience in the networks and that insight to be able to make things like this happen. I think it’s a collaborative effort for sure.
Speaker1: [00:32:53] Let’s do it. Put a date on it.
Speaker2: [00:32:54] What tickles? My God. Yeah, I think. I think I think that we do. I think that that we get a community of people who are educated within the space. We have a vision of how we can make people more active and then actually lead the way in being able to do that.
Speaker1: [00:33:08] Yeah, I wanted to backtrack just from there. We’ve gone deep into government policy and I just wanted to get some like some surface level stuff. So, you know, we did mention Biggest Loser and biggest losers, probably like the biggest positive or negative advertising campaign for health and fitness that’s been rolled around in the mainstream media. I wanted to give my take on Biggest Loser, and I want to get your take on it as well. I think Biggest Loser was great for like a general education of what it could look like to get results. I think it completely unsustainable like the way they did it. I think the big thing we didn’t see was the after after of Biggest Loser. So there was like a lot of people that lost 60 kilos and then gained 60 kilos straight back after I don’t think 100 calorie diets and training 8 hours a day with a personal trainer is completely sustainable. So I think there has to be it’s not sexy at all, but like a bit more sustainable approach. And if they were going to do it again, it has to be sustainable. I’d like to get your take on it.
Speaker2: [00:34:02] Yeah, what you said is exactly right. So I know two of the former contestants and I know the weight gain that came afterwards and everything that came afterwards. It’s 100% what happens? I agree with that 100%. I agree that I’ve been on a reality TV show, so I know how they film it and how you got to build those stories. And it’s all about like, you know, sucking people in through the other side as they’re watching it and buying into the drama of it all. And I 100% agree with what you said is if we did this sustainable and it’s not sexy like it doesn’t it doesn’t sell, there’s got to be other ways to do it, but there’s got to be different channels outside of basic social media, even Google, Right? Google, if you’re ranking on Google and you’re getting people on search terms who aren’t within the industry, but they’re coming in to get some information, it’s not like you’re disturbing them or it’s not like they’re already aware. And they know what’s going on. They might be prompted, but then they’re coming through a different funnel. So we have that channel as well. But even to get somebody to that point, it doesn’t mean that it’s like it had to have been top of mind.
Speaker2: [00:35:11] They had to have been a trigger to get someone to go, Hey, I need to I want to make a lifestyle change. Let’s just say it as broad as that. I want to make a change and then put in a search term. How do you inspire people to get to that point? And I think that’s the trick, is like, how do you how do you use channels outside of your own, whether it’s partnerships, whether it’s people outside of the space that doing their journey, whether you did go big and it was a reality show, but it really showcased in a lot of people doing things the right way, I don’t think that would sell. I think even trying to get that across the board is such a big endeavor that it’s probably not worth doing. But I think there’s better ways on a local level for us to be able to utilize people who are not influencers but influence people within sectors outside of what we do and to be able to tell their story of change, which will then inspire people outside, I think that’s probably the easiest way to do it.
Speaker1: [00:36:09] Yeah, cool. To summarize this component, what we’ve just chatted about, what would be your top three ways to get the 82% of people training more or doing more physical activity.
Speaker2: [00:36:19] Doing more physical activity, I would say a statewide PR campaign. So I’ve already sort of touched on it, so I’ll just reiterate it statewide PR campaign, whether it’s with government support or not or self funded, I would say utilizing people outside of the fitness realm. So first person that comes to mind randomly, let’s say Basil, samplers, people know him, but they’re not necessarily fitness people. We’d be getting people like that, discussing their fitness journey. Then I think that that would create things top of mind. The third thing I would say from an internal industry level is helping gym owners become better marketers or helping them generate more clients. That’s directly doing it.
Speaker1: [00:36:56] Yeah, I love those points as well. Tell three ways to get people more active. I would say like some kind of corporate like incentive from the government would be cool. Secondly, I think like people are motivated by the carrot or the stick, so we need to put like depending on the person, the carrot or the stick in front of them, there has to be some kind of incentive for them to do it, like personally or a stick. So sometimes when we set goals, like with our own clients, I even find like you’ve got to give them the two options so I can be like, What’s going to motivate you more? Like, you know, buy yourself a new dress or a thousand calories on the bike if you do not achieve this goal. And then usually the person is going to say, All right, cool, I fucking do not want to do a thousand calories on the bike rather than by myself. A But I’m going to do that. So yeah.
Speaker2: [00:37:39] I love that two prong approach.
Speaker1: [00:37:40] Hey, yeah, it’s a different way of doing things, but you know, people are motivated by different shit and I think like the third way probably would be I don’t even know if there was like a mass like follow these people on social media method and they’re going to be inspiring so we can get like a list of like the top 100 accounts to follow to be inspired. Because when I like the best thing about social media is inspiration and like I like following people that are doing shit and like you’re one of those people that’s doing stuff. And when I see other people doing stuff, I’m like, I need to do more stuff because I’m being lazy. And that’s like, that’s what motivate motivates me mentally and internally.
Speaker2: [00:38:15] You know how you could do this. So just to wrap this up, because I like I really like those points. And by the way, this is why collaboration is super important and it’s not a one person job to be able to do it because people have different perspectives. You kind of come half way, right? So you I like the idea of like the people and getting those inspired. So why not as an industry level? And we can facilitate the content or the media side of it, but we’re not trainers and I’m not going to put someone, but we can partner with trainers like you to get these people to go through their journeys and document it, which gets pushed out across their platforms as well. And let’s say you get 10 to 20 of these people and they’re going through their experiences. We get to tell a story which is great. The gyms get the exposure off it or the trainers get the exposure off it, and then it’s a three way approach because then these people are pushing this out to people who aren’t necessarily in it, and then that inspires them to do it. It’s minimal cost, utilizing everyone’s resources to be able to do it. And you’re not relying on any red tape for that to happen 100%.
Speaker1: [00:39:14] I just thought like what’s like the biggest, like the fastest expanding medium at the moment. It’s like Netflix. Stan Amazon Prime, like all those video streamers. What if we could get like a documentary on them on showing the journey? I think that would inspire a lot of people, but we’d need to get them to watch. That’s the other part. So the next question I wanted to go down. I couldn’t think of anyone better, probably to answer this question because you are so deep in the fitness industry and the question is like, where do you see it going in the next five years? Like where do you see it evolving? Evolving? What do you think’s going to boom? What are you not think’s going to go well? Like basically, what do you think’s going to happen?
Speaker2: [00:39:53] Yeah, so it’s funny because, you know, I get asked this question a bit, especially in this sort of environment, and I don’t think that there’s going to be the next F 45 like let’s, you know, 24, seven gyms revolutionised things for back then and then big box gyms pivoted and then they offer 24 seven. Then you had, let’s say CrossFit came into the market and then that opened a door for gyms like Helix where you don’t necessarily need to be CrossFit, but it’s the same model of it’s community based gym in a small group environment. F45 obviously is a franchise, came off the back of that and now there’s probably I think that the actual number is 50 or 52 franchises in that model that are registered in Australia, but let’s use Big four is 45 fits top BFT and I’m sure I’m missing another one, but.
Speaker1: [00:40:46] Maybe, yeah.
Speaker2: [00:40:47] I think they’re almost defunct in Australia now. Okay. It was modelled that that worked out well. They got dropped by collective wellness, who was the master franchise. So I don’t think that was successful. But let’s say though, but there’s all that sort of stuff popping up all the time. Then you got like the, like 30 day who’s who’s Perth, by the way. Love seeing Perth people do epic stuff and Luke and the team have killed it with their 30. I know that they’re going to have international expansion with the kind of nightclub sort of feel in gyms. I think that’s awesome. I think that big boxes have like. So I reckon there was if we look at ebbs and flows, I think that 24/7 change know big boxes adapted to that. They started offering 24 seven as a standard. I think that the biggest shift previously was that boutique wave that came in and it was that small group training and I think that big box gyms didn’t didn’t have an answer for that, not in not in a really good way. But what I see now is big box gyms are starting to refine their offering in their services, and you’re getting a lot more value for what you would have got. So recovery, you know, recovery like well done Pilates within it, like good life’s gone through all these reverbs and I’m like, okay, cool. Big box gyms are now sort of in that innovation stage where they’re offering a lot of value for a broader amount of people, and then you’ve got all the different combat stuff and whatnot, which is in its own sort of evolution, you know, the growth of BJJ, that sort of that sort of stuff.
Speaker2: [00:42:15] But it doesn’t really relate to gym fitness industry very much as far as what I think is going to change in the next four years. I don’t think that there’s going to be a massive shift within the bricks and mortar business part. We know that wearables has its own innovations where both people so you had a whole wave of wearables coming through, you had a whole wave of apps coming through. So Sweat Up was sold for $700 Million by by an Australian young guy, Australian $700 million owned it outright. No investment schedule. Wild Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just crazy. And if someone said to me, what’s like the opportunity within the gym space, I don’t think I don’t have that I did years ago. I actually don’t know what that opportunity is for a gym or what that future. Sure is going to be. Except for providing more value and more offerings within your gym space, maximising out your square metre edge. So if I was to do it, I’d have a sick recovery zone. I’d be looking at longevity more within the space. I would have personalized offerings within the space that I would be trying to maximize out my square meter edge in a well thought out way. So the vibe and the environment was amazing and also had the opportunity to increase my average customer value while still providing that service at the same time and whilst maintaining retention. Yeah, I don’t foresee anyone knocking the socks off innovation anytime soon.
Speaker1: [00:43:58] Yeah, for sure. Yeah. On that point we just spent 15 K on our recovery area at Helix, so we got an ode, an ice bath, new sauna like yeah, completely redid the area. So yeah, they actually just messaged me to that. They were like, We just shipped your ice bath. I was like, Let’s fucking go 23rd of December. So yeah, I’m pumped for that. But yeah.
Speaker2: [00:44:19] If I, if I did it, I would do the same thing. I would go to Odin. I would want that luxe experience for people to come into. And I just like, yeah, it’s a whole package 100%.
Speaker1: [00:44:30] Yeah, we did that. Like we got a, like an eval scanner. People can use that at a specialty. Classes 24 seven, all the types of things that like extras in the fitness industry to make it a more valuable gym membership. I think a lot of gym owners are missing the boat on this. Like, personally, I think it’s not that much money to add in lots of value for longevity.
Speaker2: [00:44:53] Just just on that, you spoke about Helix. What are you think of the innovations like where do you think the industry is going to be in like three to like four years? And I might have answered that incorrectly, but yeah, the innovations, where do you think you’re going to see changes?
Speaker1: [00:45:07] I personally think gym owners need to stop copying each other. Like I think it’s a big problem. Like one gym owner gets a new piece of equipment, the other one buys the exact same piece of equipment. And I feel like it’s not true innovation coming from that angle. Personally, where I’m taking it is like the science route. So we’re going hard on velocity training. So I don’t know if you’re familiar with it. I’ll go through it as if you’re not, but velocity.
Speaker2: [00:45:32] Velocity training.
Speaker1: [00:45:33] Yeah. So speed of the bar will dictate the intent of your lift.
Speaker2: [00:45:38] Do use the measurements.
Speaker1: [00:45:39] Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker2: [00:45:39] Yes, we use little cables.
Speaker1: [00:45:41] Yeah. Yeah. Cool. So we’ve got four racks getting hooked up at the gym with iPads, and then the bar speed will be tracked. So the beauty of it is if you’ve got three athletes and you’re all squatting and you’re all squatting the same amount, you get a bass bed and then the next person goes and he says, I want you to beat his bass beat. And then it becomes a competition on the rack, on the speed, and you’re probably like, That doesn’t fucking matter. Or you’re either on the other side where you’re like, I’d like to be in that competition as well. So you’re either like, You don’t care or you do care. But if you do care, it’s pretty exciting because like studies have shown over like a 12 week block, you can get like 5 to 15% more gain on like a regular, just like nothing else has changed. So that’s kind of like our next level innovation personally and what we’re doing. I think like more science has to come into the industry because like currently it’s like everyone’s doing basically the same program in every gym and I think like a one size fits all approach is good, but I think there has to be some variation in it as well for each individual. So I think like individualization is coming. I think people are going away, especially what I’ve seen in the industry. People are going away from big classes and I think small group is becoming more popular and even one on one has made a resurgence in the fitness industry. You can let me know.
Speaker2: [00:46:57] Yeah, for sure. So even financially on that and most people, not most people, some people who listen to this might know Alex Homasi, they might know him as, you know, the new Garibay or they might know him at launch. So yeah, I’ll talk for anything from launch. So he has his business model, you know, it helped out so many gym owners, but I was just reviewing some of it the other day and yeah, it was there’s different levels back then. So you’ve got your group fitness, which is like u16s, but then you’ve got your higher end, which is like your four and then your personal training, which is like your one on ones. And I don’t see a lot of gyms utilize that option, which could be really effective in increasing not only the personalization of the service for those who want it, but then the value of that member for those who want it as well, which is probably also going to increase retention because they’re getting a more personalized service instead of just being, you know, just just one of them. So I think that’s an option too. There’s always two markets which never get addressed properly, and it’s definitely a blue ocean, which I don’t think anyone is really factoring in for. But how it gets delivered, I don’t think that anyone’s going to innovate for within our industry. And that’s younger. So teens. Yeah, yeah. And older. So older, let’s say 60, 60 plus or 65 plus or whatever that age bracket is. One issue with the 65 plus, and this is brutal, but they’re definitely at a later stage and investing in that.
Speaker2: [00:48:21] You know, from a let’s say, like Helix, you’re probably not going to invest in that. It’s not it’s not your model 45. No, not your passion. F 45 and, you know, square peg, square hole. You can’t be everything for all people. 45 tried doing something years ago where they had they addressed the two markets from an outside perspective. I was like, Oh genius, this is great. From a business perspective, great. Because if it works, it means that they’ve got their standard class times, but then they get to maximize their lease time because they’re going to have kids coming at a time when other people wouldn’t come. Let’s say it’s after school, so 330 to 430 and then you’re going to have the 50 plus which or retirees. So, you know, 50, 60 plus. And they’re going to come at different times where they wouldn’t usually be generating membership sales of that space. And I’m like, okay, perfect. They’re addressing both markets. They’re maximizing their return for that space. Awesome. Everybody wins. But didn’t work like they got rid of it because nobody came to Prodigy, nobody came to whatever the other one was called, and it just didn’t work. There’s opportunities, but what do those people want? And this is when you start going back to it, maybe aqua aerobics. Is it whether that’s right, to stop osteo or arthritis osteo, osteoporosis. Yeah, Yeah. This is this is where you come in because I’m a bro and this is where smarter people come in. I’m a broad well.
Speaker1: [00:49:37] I’m a bro with a.
Speaker2: [00:49:38] Degree. That’s it. Yeah, you got a degree? I didn’t even go to uni unless it was for a university party. So this is, again, collaboration. I like to solve the opportunities and solve the problems, but it takes people with a different intellect to be able to be a component of that as well. So I think that if you’re investing in the future and you can find a way to really hit like the teens and kids and it’s and it might not look like barbells and dumbbells or even in a gym, but it looks like something no one’s innovated that and turned it into a business model yet. As far as I’m concerned, unless you say sport. And then on the flip side, it’s like you know, older population, how can you find an how can you find an enticing solution which genuinely helps with common diseases and gets them into chronic diseases and gets them physically active more often? And I think if somebody can effectively solve those problems, then that’s an innovation that should happen.
Speaker1: [00:50:35] Yeah, 100% agree that too. Like demographics which are probably very important for society as a whole. I think if we get the kids in a good habit off the bat, that’s going to be incredible for society. And if we get the old people or older people, sorry, probably speaking derogatory towards old people right now and I doubt they’re listening, they won’t know how to use their phone. But I think if we.
Speaker2: [00:50:58] Say but it’s true.
Speaker1: [00:50:59] Right. Yeah. If we get them healthier, it’s going to be better for everyone.
Speaker2: [00:51:03] Yeah, for sure.
Speaker1: [00:51:05] Yeah. In America, it’s done like they have. I know they have. It’s like a plus. Forty’s gym in California a like franchise they the owner of the founder of this was in my business networking group a couple of years ago MPAA and I remember hearing all about I thought it was fucking genius like it’s incredible, especially in like really affluent areas, like they are killing it.
Speaker2: [00:51:30] Southern California and then very thing.
Speaker1: [00:51:32] I thought, Yeah.
Speaker2: [00:51:34] I’m almost in that bracket.
Speaker1: [00:51:37] Well, you’re a master’s athlete now, aren’t you?
Speaker2: [00:51:39] Yeah, well, it depends which sport, but yeah, technically 35 points.
Speaker1: [00:51:43] Yeah, I’ve seen your posts about that a few times. I’m excited to get into that age group because it’s less competitive. Most people just drop off and I’m like, I’m never dropping off.
Speaker2: [00:51:52] I sort of have this window now. So whenever I’ve like, like whenever I’ve won anything or like, what if I play offs and all of that, I haven’t technically been great. I’ve just seen a window of opportunity where I know that I can win something or I can hack the system. Tim Ferriss used to do it, so he had like, well, records in dancing. And it’s not because he was great, it’s because he found a way to hack the system. So I essentially did that, and that’s how I’ve done a lot of this stuff. Not because I’m great, but I have this window of opportunity to break a lot of Masters records before all the people who are great now in opens are starting to turn 35. So I’m like, All right, if I’m going to do it, this or 2023 is pretty much the last year that I have to be able to get. My name’s etched in the record books.
Speaker1: [00:52:36] Are we talking CrossFit?
Speaker2: [00:52:38] No, this is weightlifting.
Speaker1: [00:52:40] Weightlifting. Nice.
Speaker2: [00:52:41] And it’s probably the last year before I jump on hormone therapy as well. So I would really use that window of opportunity.
Speaker1: [00:52:47] Now, you’re already jacked. I can’t even imagine.
Speaker2: [00:52:50] I’ll just bald. I’ll just be bolder.
Speaker1: [00:52:53] Look, so, you know, we are we’re both entrepreneurs. We’re both business people as well as fitness people. And one of the things I really admire about you is you take risks. Taking risks is something that most people are adverse to for obvious reasons. Is the fear of complete financial meltdown or personal meltdown, or what will people think of me? And you’re someone that probably. Doesn’t think about it in the same light. So you know, what are like what’s the biggest some of the biggest risks you’ve taken and how do they pay off? The reason I ask you this is because I want people to be inspired listening to this. I want them to finish the podcast thinking Brendo’s got a plan, they talk some good shit and I’m inspired to do something. So like, what are your biggest risks and how do they pay off for you?
Speaker2: [00:53:36] Yeah, for sure. I’ll give context to it as well. I used to be like, so risk averse. I think that’s a way of saying it where I just didn’t care. I’ll just throw caution into the wind. If I wanted to do something, no matter what, I just make it happen. After I became a dad, that definitely changed a bit where all of a sudden you got minimum requirements financially. Like what’s the worst thing? If it’s me? Like, I don’t care, I’m going to make it work. I moved over to Perth with like, I think like maybe less than a couple of hundred dollars in my wallet with no job, with nothing. I literally moved over and I’m like, Yeah, we’ll work out and jumped on a plane and stayed on stay to my mate’s house. I’ll come back to that because I’m actually going to use that as the one which paid off. I’ve done businesses where I’ve got I’m like, Hey, this is what I’m going to do. Whether it’s Perth Fit Fam, there’s an opportunity. I’ve got some form of feedback that it’s going to work and I just quit my job and went full into it. Probably stupid, but it happened and I did it and I went through processes like that to be able to do it even bit.
Speaker2: [00:54:42] If I got validation got, then I’m like, okay, I’m going to stop and I’m going to put all my efforts in, in, into this. The biggest thing for me is actually I’ll finish this off. I had a baby and saw my shares at this time. Bags and cash was taken care of in that instance, but I became a dad and I actually sat there and I worked out what’s the minimum amount I can earn to make sure that we have a roof over our heads that we can eat? And, you know, that stuff’s taken care of. And I had that number and I going into business this time and leaving like a job which I had after I sold the up three months afterwards, I was like, okay, I’m a guy. I’ve got to work. It’s, you know, you’ve got to have purpose. And I ended up going to work for someone else because I wasn’t ready for business when I was ready to get back into business. And I had that itch and I knew what I was going to do. I literally was like, okay, what’s the minimum figure that I need to earn to take care of my family? And I had that and I made sure that I could do that before I left, which I could. Had I been younger, I wouldn’t have cared.
Speaker2: [00:55:55] I just would have like, Hey, this is what I’m going to do. I’m just going to go do it and put all my energies into it and make it happen. The outcome of that being younger and not being in the public service, which growing up in Canberra, that’s what you do. That’s what my family wanted me to do back then, is become a public servant, earning that average amount and hating my 9 to 5. I flew to the other side of the country and I went, That’s not what I want for my life. I want to go explore it. I was definitely the black sheep of the family and like I said, I jumped on a plane with no job, no nothing, and then just started my own journey, working my life out. At that point in time, the process of doing that is I got to do what I love. I found it early, which I’m lucky I got to do what I loved. I tried things along the way for sure, but I took risks and I threw money into stuff and I didn’t care if I lost the money, but I was just going to try, you know, try things. Try things. Try things. I worked it out after I sold the dating app and I banks and Cash, and I actually said, you know what? If I would have saved a regular amount every, you know, every week or whatever and the compounding interest effect of that, I would literally be in the same situation.
Speaker2: [00:57:04] But I would hate my life like, well, I might not hate it. I just might have become dull to doing something. And that was my life. I was going to work nine till five in to make ends meet and then try and live outside of those hours. So I got to experience stuff I got to film with Arnold. I get I get to go see CrossFit things. I literally get to hang out with people that I love. And I’ve created situations doing what I love and work for me, work and personal. It’s now I’ve got a baby, it’s separated for sure, but there was no line between the two because I was literally living my life, like doing business with people. I wanted to and I just made somehow a career of being me. And somehow that worked and I got to make money from it. So I think from a risk perspective and trying to put my people try to put myself in somebody else’s shoes and depending where they are at life, if you’re young, like if you’re in your twenties and there’s something you have and you have some level of validation that people want it, whether it’s a product or a service, just go for it, hammer it, work out what the minimum amount is that you need to take care of your.
Speaker2: [00:58:14] Make sure that you can cover that. Well, I would suggest because I never used to do that or just risk it all. But, you know, I would say just understand what that number is not I’m going to earn $1,000,000 a year and that’s when I’m successful. Just what’s that minimum success line? To feed yourself and to put a roof over your head and then just go from there and let it compound and become great at what you do and learn the lessons along the way. Because I can say the experiences that I’ve had have all compounded and all helped, and building them up was like a two year university degree in tech and data analytics and startup science. It was it was wild. And the impact that has now had on not only in my business now and how we operate, but also the impact I have on other businesses is like astronomically different because all of a sudden I’ve got like this different level of knowledge just from doing it. It’s crazy.
Speaker1: [00:59:08] Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I totally agree. We out to dinner with some close friends of ours last night and they started a business about a year ago. It’s not exactly killing it. And they were like a little bit upset about it. And I kind of said to them, Look, I’ve been doing entrepreneurship. I work for myself for 13 years. It’s not about how much money you make or how successful it is. It’s about the skills you learn. Because if it’s not this one, it’s the next one. And if it’s not the next one, it’s the one after. At some point, one of your like things or projects or businesses are going to take off. And it’s about acquiring the skills in each, you know, season of your life, so to speak, so that when the big opportunity comes up, you’re going to fucking crush and dominate.
Speaker2: [00:59:47] And I think when you reach every one of those steps as well, because you always look back and you’re always like, Oh man, I wish that I knew you back then, what I know now, or how I would have done that different. I still do that now. We’re like, I swear, every few months I’m still, like, consuming and still learning so much that I’m like, Oh, I would play that so different. And I’m 37 and it’s not like I stop now. I’m like, Oh, I’m just going to continually just get better and better and better and better at this. And the way that I’m going to do that, obviously you try and learn from other things or other people, but like, you know, I know that we spoke about being in groups and I’m sure that we’re both paid for different education, you know, non tertiary education. But I literally learned the most now just by doing it and testing it.
Speaker1: [01:00:31] Yeah, for sure. I love that. So yeah, what would you think or what would you say to someone that’s on the cusp of taking risks or making a big decision which could adversely, positively affect their life or negatively?
Speaker2: [01:00:44] Yeah. Okay, cool. So if I had to tell anyone anything, I would say validate your idea before you jump. And if you have a product based idea and you think that you’ve got the next big the next big gadget or whatever this thing is going to be, and you’re like, It’s going to kill it, but you have not got interest of anything, or you can’t measure basic data like conversion rate, average order value, returning customer rate. So I’m talking from that’s probably more of a Shopify standpoint. I wouldn’t completely drop my income now that I’m older, I wouldn’t completely drop my income until I had those things, until I had some level of proof that I can scale it. I’d say take the risk in investing into this thing like 100%. I don’t care if it’s, you know, whatever savings, whatever splurge accounts, whatever mojo accounts you’ve got set up if you’re into barefoot style. But I would take the risk into invest it, establish validation. Once you’ve got your validation and you can prove scalability and just put in that extra hustle, then you can start to cut your other stuff. That’s how I would take. That’s how I would say take the risk, but just make sure that you take care of the other stuff so you don’t need to worry and make bad decisions based on finance. So that’s if somebody like already, you know, they’re ready to take that step. If we scale it back and people are just too scared to do it.
Speaker2: [01:02:04] And I think this is probably the one that should have led in with that will resonate if you’re if you have this idea or you have this dream, but you’re just too scared to do it like, fuck that. Like, like get rid of. That’s the part that you need to get rid of. You may as well test it. What’s the worst that’s going to happen? And most fear would be of what are people going to think it’s like? You all remember. All right. So we did the dieting outright, started off as a joke. I got so many messages. People thought. Thought I was an idiot. It’s crazy. Like, legit. I probably thought I was an idiot, but I was just so intent into, like, learning everything about these things. This industry, once I established all people, are actually interested in this. This is actually an idea. I went nuts in learning every single thing I could about the industry, the tech, how it works, the development like I already knew about, start up and going through a lean startup process at that stage. But I actually got to implement it. Even when the app came out, we literally launched a minimum viable product which was full of bugs, was broken. I started getting messages from people that I didn’t know, but they knew me from the industry, like basically saying how shit it was and how it’s never going to work. Guess what, motherfuckers? It worked.
Speaker1: [01:03:15] Dude. I thought it.
Speaker2: [01:03:15] Was incredibly dope.
Speaker1: [01:03:16] Off the bat. I was like, This is incredible. What a fucking idea.
Speaker2: [01:03:19] Yeah, it works. But like, I just had to take it and I was like, Oh yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep. It’s all like, that was all there. But you have to go through that stuff. Like, I mean, someone is definitely talking shit somewhere, but I don’t know, I just don’t even think about it. Like, I just. You just get it done. If it tickles my pickle and it’s like, if it’s something which I go, Hey, that looks like fun. And like, I think that, like, I’ve got some level of proof that there’s a market for it. I like to operate in a blue in a blue ocean. So like something which is a new innovation that’s sort of like my space where I like to work was like creating something new. And I’m like, Hey, if I’ve got a level of proof and however I can measure that, whether it’s through building a waiting list, whether it’s through doing something on Instagram and see what the traction of that thing is, I’m like, okay, I’m going to keep on putting into this. I’m going to keep on putting into this. So if you’ve got an idea, just do it. Just like find how to launch a minimum viable product, do it or minimum viable service, whatever you want to call it, do it as much as you possibly like, as close as you possibly can and as fast as you possibly can. Work out what the engagement is on that to see what the market feedback is. And if you get in market feedback, that might be for someone who’s scared to, let’s just say, randomly start a massage business just as a random thing, but you’re doing this service on the side of what you’re doing and you’re building it up. Cool. Okay, you got validation. You love what you do is passionate. That’s probably a bad example. I’m just trying to think of something not product related, but get the validation tested early, get the feedback, and then when you could go, just send it.
Speaker1: [01:04:49] Just send it. That’s the final send off there. Yeah. I’d like just to hammer your point. Like people that 99.999% out of ten. So 9.9 out of ten people that are talking shit generally are doing nothing. So like.
Speaker2: [01:05:02] Yeah.
Speaker1: [01:05:02] That’s the rule of thumb. Finally, this is a spanner in the works. Our final question for you, wrap this podcast up, which would be incredible. What’s something I haven’t asked you but I should have?
Speaker2: [01:05:12] Ha! Oh yeah. We used to have. We used to. We used to hammer people with this all the time at the end of the podcast.
Speaker1: [01:05:21] Payback.
Speaker2: [01:05:23] Yeah. And like, easy question. I don’t even know something that you should have asked me. But you didn’t. I was going to say it’s completely personal and not industry related. Fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine.
Speaker1: [01:05:45] It’s fine. Go there. Yeah.
Speaker2: [01:05:48] How much did I enjoy your wedding?
Speaker1: [01:05:50] Oh, yeah? How much did you enjoy my wedding? Summarise it for us.
Speaker2: [01:05:53] I got to say, this was like, the best surprise because I was my wife’s plus one, so there’s actually multiple connections with Tim, and I was. My wife’s plus one went down south. I’m going to blame it on my wife, forgot to pack my pants, had to race and get like this random getup in Dunsborough, which is just surf shops rocked up. I’ve got to say the best emcee, best marriage celebrant I’ve ever seen in my life, absolute comedy show. And the reception was one of the funnest things. So yeah, thank you for having me for that. It was literally, I would probably say the top wedding I’ve ever been to as far as via fun fun times, good crew. It was awesome.
Speaker1: [01:06:30] Yeah, it was incredible day. Yeah. Best day of my life. Hands down. It’s funny. Like the emcee, Daniel Dalby, he’s gone, like, viral from the videos from our wedding. Yeah, he’s on Tik Tok. He’s getting like 700,000 views on some of them, which is.
Speaker2: [01:06:44] Pretty crazy. So we should. He was, he was the best. Literally. I was like Shell and I just both went, Man, I wish that we knew about this episode for our wedding because he was the best.
Speaker1: [01:06:53] Yeah, we I’ll tell the story of how we were at like one of my client’s weddings. And this emcee was up there and I was like, Oh my God, looks familiar. And then all of a sudden he started paying out on people in the audience, and no one was laughing and I was hysterical. Like, I was the only person laughing at the like when people were like, up on the altar getting married. I was killing myself, laughing, couldn’t contain myself. And I looked around and I don’t think he told everyone that he was a comedian. And I was just like, This is the best thing of all time. And then I looked at Steph and I was like, We have to have this guy do our wedding.
Speaker2: [01:07:28] Yeah, it was a good choice. I don’t know how people wouldn’t know he was a comedian, but I can just imagine, like if you’ve got a real serious family and what was coming out of his mouth, he was solid.
Speaker1: [01:07:38] Yeah, he was great. So, Brendo, how do people find you? And thanks for jumping on.
Speaker2: [01:07:44] Yeah. So probably Instagram. So just Brendon McCormack. Or if you just type Brando, it’s definitely going to pop up, especially if you’re in Perth. If you want to find out a little bit about more what we do. So perfect for me. If you don’t follow it already, just go to a perfect fam on Instagram, Tik Tok, Facebook, whatever that is. And if there’s something like You got questions, just feel free to like reach out and shoot me questions and yeah, man, thanks for having me on.
Speaker1: [01:08:07] It looks like we need to organise a public holiday for Perth Fitness Day.
Speaker2: [01:08:12] Let’s do it. We got some follow ups.
Speaker1: [01:08:15] Thanks, brother.